Discussion About Dinar and Dirham Currency at Umar Vadillo’s FaceBook

In his profile Umar Vadillo wrote:

“Some people think we are just selling gold and silver coins, but they are wrong -they are only looking at the surface in which they dwell. If they had Taqwa they would reflect on their own sickness and join our common struggle fisabilillah to spread Trust in Allah, our firm belief in the unremitting authority of His Commands, and our unshakable commitment to join Allah and His Messenger in His war against Riba.”

Some Muslims agree with what Umar wrote, while others don’t.
Some who disagree such as Adrian Chin wrote:

“‎( If I can reduce my production price, why should I sell at lower price if t…here are willing buyer to buy at higher price, so I get more profit? ) — Liang, that defeats the purpose of the holistic mission here, doesn’t it ?”

My answer is:

“@Adrian: Could you calculate the US Dollar’s price (or any other paper money) exactly?
In my calculation, the price of paper+ink+cost of printing a US$ 100 < 0.001 gram of GOLD. But how come a US$ 100 PAPER worth>2 grams of GOLD?
And why many people still like to use US Dollar? Could you explain it to us Adrian?”

Liang Ng also wrote:

Liang Ng
Adrian: the answer is no. From what I understand so far (I hope I don’t disappoint Umar) profit is legal from the point of view of Islam (http://quran.com/2/275)

The problem is when a market does not exist, there is monopoly, or cartel, so there is no “fair price”.

Therefore we really need to have a Gold Market/Exchange like London Bullion Market Association and Shanghai Gold Exchange in Malaysia and elsewhere.

My answer is as follow:

Agus Nizami In Indonesia at least there are 2 Dinar and Dirham issuers: wakalanusantara.com and geraidinar.com

Enay wrote:

Enay Sunarman war against riba ? yes …. i agree …. lanjutkan saudaraku

Adrian wrote:

Adrian Chin
Agus, I suppose people like USD is because everyone recognizes it as a currency to use, as also Euro, Yen, and a few others

As to the cost of the value of the US100 note, costing only a few cents to print, who cares ? As long as people are happy to note its value that’s printed.

As for the dinar and dirham, to me, the interest is not in the value of what it is actually, but the cost of forgery, after a while, when it picks up. The RM1 coin was so well forged, that the Govt had to pull it off the market after a few years. So I figure, if the dirham and dinar are not legal tender, then it’s free for all for everyone to forge.

After so many postings, some replying to me, and many not, you are the first person who actually gave me numbers to validate a reason of some kind, so I’m sharing with you what I had in mind. Now you all know eh. Since the purpose is to create an alternative “currency” for trade, with the dinar and dirham, my reasoning is, you need the forgers to come in on the industry, to really propagate expansion of this. I’m looking at it from a software perspective. There’s probably a reason why there are more Windows OS systems than Apple powered OS out there, and in my opinion, counterfeit Windows OS, plays a large part in propagation of Windows.

And this is my final reply:

Agus Nizami
Well, if people could receive paper money as a US$ 100 worth more than 2,000 times of its value as currency, I am sure it will be easier for us to receive Gold/Silver that worth 1.1 of their real value.
Though everyone could make Dinar and Dirham money, but people will only trust some credible institutions. In Indonesia, there are 2 trusted institutions: GeraiDinar.com and WakalaNusantara.com. If government make it, it would be better.

Is the Dinar really 4.25 grams of 22 carat Gold? Is the Dinar could be bought/sold easily with minimum spread? (in Indonesia the buy-sell spread only 4-6%). Comparing to 15% of inflation rate in Indonesia, keeping Dinar will give us yield 10% If we keep it for 3 years, the yield is 30% against Indonesian Rupiah.

But the important is, Gold and Silver are currencies that have real values. It’s also riba (interest) free and far more inflation-proof than worthless paper money. It’s also the currencies that our prophet used.

Insya Allah sooner or later many Muslims will trust Dinar (Gold) and Dirham (Silver) as currencies. Many Businessmen have join in JawaraDinar.com (including me). They receive Dinar and Dirham as money to buy their products and services. For instance I receive Dinar and Dirham as Hijamah/Bekam (Islamic way to prevent/cure hypertension, gout, high cholesterol, etc) payment. I also except 3 Dinars as payment for web development.

Alhamdulillah Adrian Chin accept my explanation:

Adrian Chin Agus, I agree with all segments of your explanation above. Thank you. I also receive non-RM notes for product and services rendered to others. This is a very effective barter system.

Source : http://agusnizami.wordpress.com/2010/09/14/discussion-about-dinar-and-dirham-currency-at-umar-vadillo%E2%80%99s-facebook/